Anika Kotecha is remembering the Michael Jackson she knew. The one she visited at Neverland, and who used to phone her up to marvel at her trips to the supermarket.
"He'd go, 'You went to the shops? Oh wow, what was that like?'
"And for me, I just went to pick up some bread and milk, but for him that's amazing - because he can't go and do that.
"It's quite sad as well, but he was just the nicest guy."
Kotecha says meeting the Man in the Mirror singer makes it hard for her to believe the rumours and accusations of child abuse that dogged him in life and in death.
"It does put a slant on these things," she says.
"You compare it to the person you knew, and I feel stronger in my convictions because of that."
Kotecha is speaking to the BBC after the broadcast of Leaving Neverland - a four-hour TV documentary which laid out the case against Jackson in gruelling, graphic detail last week on Channel 4 and HBO.
It focuses on two men, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, both in their late 30s, who allege the star befriended them as children, then sexually abused them for years.
The Jackson family has already fired back at the film, calling it a "public lynching" and the "ultimate betrayal" - and they're not the only ones to dispute the claims.
Fans have congregated around the hashtags #MJInnocent and #MJFam, posting lengthy rebuttals to the documentary on YouTube, social media and specially-constructed websites.
They've protested outside Channel 4's headquarters; and even bought adverts on London buses, carrying the slogan: "Facts don't lie, people do".
Dan Reed, who directed Leaving Neverland, told the BBC that he and Jackson's accusers had also been targeted by Jackson's fans.
"There's been a lot of horrible things said about me online and we've received a lot of emails, too," he said a few days before the documentary was broadcast.
"I'm amazed that people feel entitled to do that when they haven't seen the film and don't know anything about me and they know even less about Michael Jackson."
On the last count, at least, he is wrong.
The fans behind the campaign include lawyers and journalists, who are forensically acquainted with Michael Jackson and the allegations against him.
"We surface court statements, investigations, including from the FBI, and previous statements that clearly conflict with the accusations and information presented in the HBO documentary," says Tiffany, a US fan who posts under the name @RideTheBoogie.
"We felt very strongly we needed to be Michael's voice," says Kotecha, who, as an administrator of the MJInnocent.com website, helped organise the bus campaign.
"Because, ironically for someone whose entire career was based on his voice, he no longer has a voice."